tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post1424036888267246468..comments2023-11-02T07:13:53.064-07:00Comments on Beervana: On KolschJeff Alworthhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02930119177544342495noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-18885076101751933122014-07-31T10:01:03.793-07:002014-07-31T10:01:03.793-07:00Synchronic, diachronic, prescriptive, descriptive:...<i>Synchronic, diachronic, prescriptive, descriptive: no matter what, though, "Kolsch" is misspelled. You can only follow modern usage so far, or every internet misspelling is fair game.</i><br /><br />So says the prescriptivist. :-)Jeff Alworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02930119177544342495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-60649658269513212902014-07-30T16:21:26.432-07:002014-07-30T16:21:26.432-07:00They didn't call them ales, no. Despite eviden...They didn't call them ales, no. Despite evidence of the word in anglo-saxon, "ealu" seems to have dropped out of old high German, for whatever reason. Today, it has a very technical sense in America, not so much in the UK, but it's *that* sense that has ended up back in German.<br /><br />Language changes, and you're essentially making a dictionary of beer, one that has to Daniel Warnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-21040118077666219762014-07-30T11:43:53.592-07:002014-07-30T11:43:53.592-07:00My view is that as Americans, we can use our own l...My view is that as Americans, we can use our own language as we wish. Everyone does this. We call the country "Germany," for example, without causing widespread confusion or offense. Beyond that, words have at best provisional meanings, and trying to figure out what people called ales in Cologne in te 16th century (when they were making different beers) has very little relevance to whatJeff Alworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02930119177544342495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-46987745216798065962014-07-30T09:28:09.423-07:002014-07-30T09:28:09.423-07:00Cologne had prohibitions against bottom fermenting...Cologne had prohibitions against bottom fermenting yeast since at least the 15th century, though, centuries before the RHGB was made law of the land throughout Germany. They weren't called "lagerbier" then.<br /><br />As for "lager" meaning "this beer is stored cold during production," I'm not sure that holds in modern, traditionalist breweries in Bavaria. Daniel Warnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-28034856054381734922014-07-30T05:58:15.511-07:002014-07-30T05:58:15.511-07:00Dare I join the pedantry? Of course. I'm on ...Dare I join the pedantry? Of course. I'm on board with Obergaeriges Lagerbier because it implies an important part of the production of the beers: lagering. Why do most US "Koelsches" taste like blonde ales and not like German Koelsch? Because they're made like traditional ales and not as Obergariges Lagerbiers. So while some may not like the "top fermented lager"Bill Schnellernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-89554252418600390442014-07-30T03:15:16.876-07:002014-07-30T03:15:16.876-07:00Cologne had its own Reinheitsgebot which forbade t...Cologne had its own Reinheitsgebot which forbade the brewing of bottom-fermenting beer.Ron Pattinsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03095189986589865751noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-56295370114273389752014-07-29T21:57:05.432-07:002014-07-29T21:57:05.432-07:00Also, Pattinson is wrong on this one. The oldest s...Also, Pattinson is wrong on this one. The oldest sources describe the beer of Cologne as "top fermenting," but this was when the Rhineland was basically a collection of city-states. Remember that the RHGB established the law in all of the newly-formed German nation as a bargaining chip for the powerful Bavarian elite, many of whom had a financial interest in brewery. A German-wide RHGBDaniel Warnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-64831034011089286142014-07-29T21:44:37.597-07:002014-07-29T21:44:37.597-07:00Jeff, turning an umlaut into a ligature of letter ...Jeff, turning an umlaut into a ligature of letter + e is not a German rule, it's an English one. It has been the commonly accepted way to translate umlauts into English since at least the 19th century, when ae, oe, etc were common ligature blocks in typefaces. See also the english names Koenig, Goebbels, Boehner. So yes, "koelsch" is the correct way to spell it in English.Daniel Warnernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-36714654997387735292014-07-29T20:25:34.507-07:002014-07-29T20:25:34.507-07:00Yes, God invented blogs for quibbling. Carry on. Yes, God invented blogs for quibbling. Carry on. Jeff Alworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02930119177544342495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-71988868285921173382014-07-29T19:36:33.571-07:002014-07-29T19:36:33.571-07:00So what spelling errors do you excuse when you'...So what spelling errors do you excuse when you're using a pencil?<br />.....<br />Sorry, just being a jackass. All I really wanted to do was use the "physician heal thyself" bit. But in all seriousnesd, 1) this is a blog--by definition the land of quibbling, and 2) don't use foreign words if you don't want to use them correctly. Charlienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-90713971026394218772014-07-29T14:09:13.013-07:002014-07-29T14:09:13.013-07:00Craig, absolutely. We're in the land of pedant...Craig, absolutely. We're in the land of pedantry and convolution. Everyone else has had their eyes glaze over while we debate minute things. Jeff Alworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02930119177544342495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-49428907136603664422014-07-29T14:06:34.410-07:002014-07-29T14:06:34.410-07:00And Charlie for the pedant of the day award! I...And Charlie for the pedant of the day award! I'm on a cell phone, so you get no umlauts. Additionally, since I write in English, I am not obliged to follow German grammar. But extra points for demanding it. Jeff Alworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02930119177544342495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-27421164286896076462014-07-29T11:42:16.831-07:002014-07-29T11:42:16.831-07:00Your right, it's not a Bavarian style--but nei...Your right, it's not a Bavarian style--but neither is it a kolsch. The word is "Kölsch." If you don't know how to make an umlaut, or are just to lazy to do so, you can spell it "Koelsch." <br />Also, it's a singulare tantum: the plural form is "Kölsch" rather than "Kölsches" (to say nothing of "kolsches" which isn't even a word).Charlienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-90759076328985925342014-07-29T09:39:39.867-07:002014-07-29T09:39:39.867-07:00Shall I convolute the discussion further by mentio...Shall I convolute the discussion further by mentioning 19th century American-made schenckbier and Bavarian ales?Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00374706510870731159noreply@blogger.com