tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post1624778795416114900..comments2023-11-02T07:13:53.064-07:00Comments on Beervana: 150 Red Sox Pubs Don't Make NYC a Sox TownJeff Alworthhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02930119177544342495noreply@blogger.comBlogger16125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-11920701721455204492013-06-20T19:51:13.354-07:002013-06-20T19:51:13.354-07:00I much preferred the machine gun toters in Paris i...I much preferred the machine gun toters in Paris in '86 even if they did open my jacket with the barrel in that subway station and found only the wine bottle. Far better sense of humour than the guy in the Grand Place. Fortunately.Alanhttp://agoodbeerblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-66134208434369760752013-06-20T05:42:44.916-07:002013-06-20T05:42:44.916-07:00Jesus! That damn Mr. McL lured me first to the NYC...Jesus! That damn Mr. McL lured me first to the NYC-DC dust-up, and thence to here, and now almost an hour of my morning has been consumed by the reading of diatribes and comments and diatribes about the comments and comments on those diatribes. And still, I find myself unable to let the whole thing rest...<br /><br />First, as has been observed, Mr. Oliver's reaction to the DC post was both Stephen Beaumontnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-68217904090120547442013-06-19T01:14:18.444-07:002013-06-19T01:14:18.444-07:00To be honest I don't know if London has a &quo...To be honest I don't know if London has a "beer culture" or not - it most certainly has a pub culture - but I can tell you that there is NO FAHKIN' WAY you would sell out a beer event in London with tickets at £110 a pop. Martyn Cornellhttp://zythophile.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-41904061334867501722013-06-18T14:59:31.850-07:002013-06-18T14:59:31.850-07:00"PPS: You may want to note that NYC is one of..."PPS: You may want to note that NYC is one of the cultural hubs of western civilization. Sure it may be irritating sometimes to be close to it but excluded but fact is you are and they are."<br /><br />You are right—and in fact, no doubt about it. Except, you and I perceive it as one of the cultural hubs of the world. The difference is that many NYC'ers see it as "the" (Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00374706510870731159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-88859529888129804512013-06-18T13:06:59.441-07:002013-06-18T13:06:59.441-07:00Yes, I probably do not know what you mean by beer ...Yes, I probably do not know what you mean by beer culture. Just for clarity, for me, culture is bigger than community. I like "local scene" meaning a sub-culture which is, oddly, itself smaller than community. "Culture" is what peoples have. Community is a mixed local. Scene or sub-culture is niche local. Communities or scenes are found in cities or regions. I think you can Alanhttp://agoodbeerblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-32889194639165435642013-06-18T12:29:28.882-07:002013-06-18T12:29:28.882-07:00I was going to let that last one sit there, but I ...I was going to let that last one sit there, but I can't. In past conversations, you've defended an extremely restrictive sense of the word "community." For me the word has broader applications, but I understand where you're headed with the critique.<br /><br />I'm not sure you're acknowledging my critique of the use of the word culture here. I don't mind that Jeff Alworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02930119177544342495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-59051473586178728812013-06-18T12:04:33.816-07:002013-06-18T12:04:33.816-07:00Sounds like you have a beer culture but want anoth...Sounds like you have a beer culture but want another one. One like someone else's. Most likely you have beer cultures in regions and specific cities. You likely also have overlapping sports fan cultures, political hack cultures and teenage music sub-cultures ad infinitum. Who the hell wants a over-riding beer culture anyway? I prefer one based on democratic rights, social justice, marketplaceAlanhttp://agoodbeerblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-25447125268720927072013-06-18T11:43:13.565-07:002013-06-18T11:43:13.565-07:00Oliver's statement isn't and American stat...Oliver's statement isn't and American statement or for that matter a beer statement. It's a typical statement by a denizen of NYC. Allow me to explain the culture of NYC—as a New Yorker who lives 150 miles north of the Harlem River. NYCers (I don't use New Yorker, because that implies that those who live in the rest of New York—which 99.999999% of New York State by the way, are Craighttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00374706510870731159noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-49526551529148669422013-06-18T10:24:37.711-07:002013-06-18T10:24:37.711-07:00Patrick, don't you admire my restraint?
I f...Patrick, don't you admire my restraint? <br /><br />I felt that was an especially weak point and didn't want to distract from it. "We have the NYT so we have beer culture." <br /><br />What? Jeff Alworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02930119177544342495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-36484352936347973382013-06-18T10:22:41.998-07:002013-06-18T10:22:41.998-07:00Alan,
Not buying it for a second. The presence ...Alan, <br /><br />Not buying it for a second. The presence of a product does not equal culture. I was on board with this line of thinking until I traveled around a bit and saw actual expressions of culture elsewhere. I'm not sure what's "haute" about Cologne in your mind, but my point was that an entire city has decided to drink just one type of beer. I could go on with Jeff Alworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02930119177544342495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-63839605094543044132013-06-18T07:26:23.182-07:002013-06-18T07:26:23.182-07:00Yes, I envy NY. All those $9 pints.Yes, I envy NY. All those $9 pints.JFnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-37526946022928855222013-06-18T04:50:04.074-07:002013-06-18T04:50:04.074-07:00You are not just going to dangle that bit about Er...You are not just going to dangle that bit about Eric Asimov and not take your own bait are you? <br /><br />C'mon man, I was eagerly anticipating a smack-down! What is the point of blogs if there 'aint some serious ad-hominym attacking going on? <br /><br />Surely he has soft spots to poke? Heck, you could skip the formalities and go directly to comparing him to Hitler! Sheesh, what Patrick Emersonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17242234148546323374noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-54436867693266743442013-06-17T15:40:13.391-07:002013-06-17T15:40:13.391-07:00OK, you bait me. You draw me in.
Here is the pro...OK, you bait me. You draw me in. <br /><br />Here is the problem with that argument. You have a beer culture. There have been premium exports into the US since at least the 1750s and beer made and drunk on a daily basis since the 1620s or before. Masses of people drink masses of beer as they have for coming on 400 years. When I cross the border, you see it all the time because beer is more in Alanhttp://agoodbeerblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-59845302842986303682013-06-17T14:51:59.172-07:002013-06-17T14:51:59.172-07:00Alan, I do think Americans are quick to conflate t...Alan, I do think Americans are quick to conflate the presence of good beer and imports for culture. That's just commerce. (And by that definition, cities like Cologne lack culture.) Garrett, who travels more than any brewer I know, is definitely aware of this. Actual beer culture is particular behavior that revolves around beer. Being able to buy Cantillon in a store doesn't cut it.<Jeff Alworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02930119177544342495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-69972943403877221732013-06-17T12:59:50.058-07:002013-06-17T12:59:50.058-07:00I can't stir up the will power to engage with ...I can't stir up the will power to engage with the idea of which is a better beer city when two obviously excellent beer cities are the options. <br /><br />Maybe this proves we have run out of topics.Alanhttp://agoodbeerblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-8954706218505541472013-06-17T11:38:51.623-07:002013-06-17T11:38:51.623-07:00I work in New York City, and though I'm very h...I work in New York City, and though I'm very happy with the state of beer here, I hesitate to say that it has a better beer culture than anywhere else in the world. Having a multitude of beer-centric pubs, bars and bottle shops doesn't make a great beer culture. It means that beer is embraced here. But I think the word "culture" relates to something with deeper roots than that.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01287873442588114879noreply@blogger.com