tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post354959541163559770..comments2023-11-02T07:13:53.064-07:00Comments on Beervana: My Troubled Relationship With the BJCPJeff Alworthhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02930119177544342495noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-16874011668688924742011-01-06T15:40:59.864-08:002011-01-06T15:40:59.864-08:00Jeff, I think you did make it clear. I was just k...Jeff, I think you did make it clear. I was just kind of jumping on the band wagon in bemoaning how the BJCP has become the go-to authority for beer styles and how they're inappropriate for that. At least they're better than they were, but the US bias is still a bit of a problem. Olllllo's comment about using a screwdriver as a hammer is right on.Bill Schnellernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-67886429528699564062011-01-06T13:52:38.139-08:002011-01-06T13:52:38.139-08:00OK... Jeff... at least I know your paying attentio...OK... Jeff... at least I know your paying attention. You caught my rouse on the Siebel example! The Siebel Course is Based on the BA/WBC Style guidelines, not the BJCP. Just checking to see if you knew the difference. ;-}<br /><br />The BJCP is flawed, as are their archaic descriptions. The BA/WBC are far better.<br /><br />Going back to your original statement:<br /><br />"there's no dr wortnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-55087671347218060432011-01-06T11:14:38.987-08:002011-01-06T11:14:38.987-08:00Bill, agreed all around. I apparently didn't ...Bill, agreed all around. I apparently didn't make it as clear as I intended, but I acknowledge that for judging purposes you have to have guidelines, and that the BJCP is adequate for that. (It's not great, but it's adequate.) My post was mainly about how the BJCP guidelines have now penetrated the world of casual beer fandom, and here they're inadequate.<br /><br />Doc, Jeff Alworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02930119177544342495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-6389633730739462282011-01-06T10:59:49.464-08:002011-01-06T10:59:49.464-08:00The fact that some are using the BJCP guidelines i...The fact that some are using the BJCP guidelines in ways that it was not intended tells me that there is a need for something very much like it. So what should replace it? <br /><br />The BJCP is not the only style guideline out there. <br /><br />Shouldn't professional brewers use and direct their comments toward the BA style guidelines http://www.brewersassociation.org/attachments/0000/Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05517937508601507605noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-36660021942029143952011-01-06T10:38:10.910-08:002011-01-06T10:38:10.910-08:00don'tBTW Jeff.... I didn't know you have a...don'tBTW Jeff.... I didn't know you have a "relationship" with the BJCP.... As far as I know, you don't work with them; You don't lead classes for them; You don't hold a BJCP certificate. But you certainly do bitch about them and probably have never offered or asked to interact or work with them. <br /><br />Your a "supposed" Beer guy, who loves to rant on dr wortnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-74151294205977368642011-01-06T06:51:28.214-08:002011-01-06T06:51:28.214-08:00Excellently presented Jeff. I couldn't agree m...Excellently presented Jeff. I couldn't agree more. Strict adherence or reference to BJCP guidelines are a disservice to the public.<br /><br />Matt<br />Double Mountain BreweryMatt at Double Mountainnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-23354121397845062462011-01-06T06:44:04.610-08:002011-01-06T06:44:04.610-08:00As someone involved in treaching BJCP classes, I h...As someone involved in treaching BJCP classes, I have to chime in. I, too, have a love /hate relationship with the guidelines and even the idea of the guidelines. Ron Pattinson has pointed out that people judged beer for a couple hundred years without any notion of "style" the way we see it now.<br /><br />I think detailed style guidelines are valuable in a competition, because you Bill Schnellernoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-71727221580448080002011-01-06T00:35:27.374-08:002011-01-06T00:35:27.374-08:00It keep saying my comment is too large! I shortene...It keep saying my comment is too large! I shortened it...<br /><br />Being a long time home brewer and involved in many judging comps, I understand how the BJCP guidelines work within the judging system. The fact that you seem to be ignoring is that these style guidelines are used to teach professional brewers. Brewers that are producing the beer that you state...<br /><br /> "Let's dr wortnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-82452820118694664582011-01-06T00:34:01.937-08:002011-01-06T00:34:01.937-08:00Don't know what happened the first time.... Bu...Don't know what happened the first time.... But interested to see your response.dr wortnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-59745076380888109692011-01-06T00:32:33.853-08:002011-01-06T00:32:33.853-08:00WORT BATE?!
Weird! Here it is, Jeff... Awaiting y...WORT BATE?!<br /><br />Weird! Here it is, Jeff... Awaiting your rebuttal...<br /><br />Being a long time home brewer and involved in many judging comps, I understand how the BJCP guidelines work within the judging system. The fact that you seem to be ignoring is that these style guidelines are used to teach professional brewers. Brewers that are producing the beer that you state...<br /><br /> &dr wortnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-88804678539134098282011-01-05T19:22:29.494-08:002011-01-05T19:22:29.494-08:00This is really weird: I got an email alerting me t...This is really weird: I got an email alerting me to a comment Doc Wort left on this post, and yet it's not here. And I had a great reply!Jeff Alworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02930119177544342495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-27519095360319937782011-01-05T10:55:38.422-08:002011-01-05T10:55:38.422-08:00That's pretty much my point: the BJCP guidelin...That's pretty much my point: the BJCP guidelines were set up for a specific purpose--one they fulfill adequately. The problem is that they appear to be spreading into other uses and I fear that they're in danger of becoming a definitive guide to style. In this purpose they are misleading and inadequate.Jeff Alworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02930119177544342495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-111240042473026222011-01-05T10:42:36.865-08:002011-01-05T10:42:36.865-08:00I very much agree with olllo's assesment here,...I very much agree with olllo's assesment here, Jeff. The BJCP guidelines are very stringent because their main focus is to be used as judging parameters for competitions. Speaking as a BJCP judge of 5 years, and having judged many competitions, the guidelines are a great. Like any tool, they take some experience to use, but they try to make things as clear an concise as possible for Seanywontonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06142253930096998849noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-43015397735156376822011-01-05T09:51:29.141-08:002011-01-05T09:51:29.141-08:00The BJCP Style guidelines are written for those th...The BJCP Style guidelines are written for those that want brew to those specifications and be judged by those specifications. The brewpub example is a case of someone using the incorrect tool.<br /><br />Turns out a screwdriver is not very effective at driving nails.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05517937508601507605noreply@blogger.com