tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post4947580873260254390..comments2023-11-02T07:13:53.064-07:00Comments on Beervana: How is this Legal?Jeff Alworthhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02930119177544342495noreply@blogger.comBlogger46125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-70700971155972758982010-11-10T14:42:57.817-08:002010-11-10T14:42:57.817-08:00Looks like it's no longer legal here in WA.
...Looks like it's no longer legal here in WA. <br /><br />http://www.komonews.com/news/local/107054863.htmlAdamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09688546442746669587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-12033071566570367212010-10-28T09:13:09.855-07:002010-10-28T09:13:09.855-07:00Anonymous cries ad hominem? Awesome!Anonymous cries ad hominem? Awesome!what we’re drinkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17142427233477622358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-9117856372486835702010-10-28T07:27:11.134-07:002010-10-28T07:27:11.134-07:00@ anon
it wasn't an ad hominem. I was being ...@ anon <br /><br />it wasn't an ad hominem. I was being serious (though also trying to be a bit funny) about your legislature. If you really feel like they would suddenly start putting restrictions on every kind of booze out there simply because they want to restrict one type of dangerous beverage, than you might be correct in your concern. <br /><br />However, I really don't see the Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09688546442746669587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-77535926524048551912010-10-27T16:03:35.185-07:002010-10-27T16:03:35.185-07:00"Do they act like the townspeople in South Pa..."Do they act like the townspeople in South Park, consistantly taking everything to a crazy extreme?"<br /><br />I don't watch South Park, so I miss your cultural reference, but I understand the ad hominem in principle.<br /><br />ORS 471.001.6a, 471.001.6b, 471.403.2, 471.506.1b, and 471.506.3b: <br /><br />Change 14% to 8%. Done. That should give Jeff most of what he wants.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-32550904548000908492010-10-27T14:54:30.001-07:002010-10-27T14:54:30.001-07:00Adam said, "A typical rum and coke contains i...Adam said, "A typical rum and coke contains ice, 1-1.5oz of 70 proof Rum and about 5-6 oz of coke. "<br /><br />Not at the bars I go to. If the drink is less than 1/3 rum you're making it wrong. It's usually close to 50:50.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-24598926902873189212010-10-27T14:47:32.361-07:002010-10-27T14:47:32.361-07:00"I am of the opinion that you cannot prevent ..."I am of the opinion that you cannot prevent the combination of Caffeine and malt-based beverages by any reasonable amount unless you make one or the other illegal, or as Jeff suggested, tax them to the nines in #3."<br /><br />Well, yes and no. There are plenty of dangerous things out there one can make in their home using common items, but which we don't sell to the general publicAdamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09688546442746669587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-86331100476484716472010-10-27T14:13:30.529-07:002010-10-27T14:13:30.529-07:00The long argument:
I usually refrain from making ...The long argument:<br /><br />I usually refrain from making arguments in long form, simply because most people get bored after reading 6 sentences. But since the nuance of my argument is lost, I shall revert to the long form.<br /><br />My warning to Jeff is to simply say that he is opening the door to all negotiations regarding alcohol. The proposal below by Jeff has not come from a legislative Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-24932646618127660702010-10-27T14:12:49.386-07:002010-10-27T14:12:49.386-07:00The long argument:
I usually refrain from making ...The long argument:<br /><br />I usually refrain from making arguments in long form, simply because most people get bored after reading 6 sentences. But since the nuance of my argument is lost, I shall revert to the long form.<br /><br />My warning to Jeff is to simply say that he is opening the door to all negotiations regarding alcohol. The proposal below by Jeff has not come from a legislative Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-71982671654259514172010-10-27T12:27:03.252-07:002010-10-27T12:27:03.252-07:00@ anon - (the one that responded to me last, hard ...@ anon - (the one that responded to me last, hard to tell if it is one anon or many posting here!)<br /><br />My slippery slope comment wasn't aimed at your suggestions, but rather at Kevin's initial statement specifically stating "slippery slope" as well as the last sentence you used "See how this can get away from you in a hurry?". To me, that last sentence seemed toAdamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09688546442746669587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-81236071301723333262010-10-27T12:15:57.987-07:002010-10-27T12:15:57.987-07:00Brad, agreed.
Anon, I'm placing you on the Ne...Brad, agreed.<br /><br />Anon, I'm placing you on the <a href="http://thenewschoolbrewblog.blogspot.com/2010/10/enemies-of-state.html" rel="nofollow">New School's Enemies List</a>.Jeff Alworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02930119177544342495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-78885734142841145082010-10-27T12:09:16.897-07:002010-10-27T12:09:16.897-07:00I believe government can and should regulate food ...<i>I believe government can and should regulate food and alcohol for the safety and health of a population.</i><br /><br />Me too. The question is, to what extent? So, we invariably have to examine the specifics of the situation to determine how much regulation we ought to tolerate.<br /><br />I don’t view Anon’s suggestion as a “slippery slope” fallacy but rather him accepting Jeff’s implied Bradhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10062313544846423344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-25051901127027943112010-10-27T12:05:42.110-07:002010-10-27T12:05:42.110-07:00Adam,
No it isn't. My proposed arbitrary rest...Adam,<br /><br />No it isn't. My proposed arbitrary restrictions are just as valid as Jeff's proposed arbitrary restrictions. I would even call it much more pragmatic resolution than his proposed solution. I'm proposing a much stricter restriction that would go much further to cure the ills that alcohol has caused our society, nothing more. No where in my argument did I say Jeff'sAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-6822289587498807872010-10-27T11:32:17.422-07:002010-10-27T11:32:17.422-07:00Putting restrictions on these specific types of be...Putting restrictions on these specific types of beverages doesn't need to lead to more/other restrictions on other beverages (nor does it imply that it would). This line of thinking is known as the "slippery slope" logical fallacy.Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09688546442746669587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-47601604355280024932010-10-27T11:07:31.620-07:002010-10-27T11:07:31.620-07:00Jeff,
So wouldn't outlawing alcohol all toget...Jeff,<br /><br />So wouldn't outlawing alcohol all together be a simpler solution? It would reduce the problem you cite as well was many other problems associated with alcohol. Or, maybe we just put a large punitive tax on all alcohol to ensure responsible drinking? I believe it is the state's best interest as it will keep us all safer.<br /><br />Let's not go after just caffeine, letAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-71514057938821989562010-10-27T09:50:21.422-07:002010-10-27T09:50:21.422-07:00from the article WWD posted - it looks like these ...from the article WWD posted - it looks like these drinks in particular have 135mg of caffeine per can, so my estimates were a little large. still almost twice as much as 1 full 8oz can of Red Bull. Which is a lot of caffeine. Consider that coffee beans contain only 1-2.5% caffeine. It is a very powerful drug.Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09688546442746669587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-53408882262797532972010-10-27T09:46:25.433-07:002010-10-27T09:46:25.433-07:00Jeff, please reiterate your basic point that peopl...<i>Jeff, please reiterate your basic point that people are failing to understand. </i><br /><br />Can do. First, I believe government can and should regulate food and alcohol for the safety and health of a population. Many people, quite respectably, are wary of this. I'd like to ask people who disagree with me to ask: is my disagreement with the philosophical point or the assumption or Jeff Alworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02930119177544342495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-47787318790024302772010-10-27T09:39:19.384-07:002010-10-27T09:39:19.384-07:00I thought everyone knew there was a point in your ...I thought everyone knew there was a point in your first semester where you become "that girl" at a party and end up crying over a bill being sent to your parents for having your stomach pumped...Kayhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12330346503619700847noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-23173967109033215042010-10-27T09:14:58.182-07:002010-10-27T09:14:58.182-07:00A couple more articles from today's New York T...A couple more articles from today's New York Times on Four Loko: <br /><br />http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/27/us/27drinkbox.html<br /><br />http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/27/us/27drink.htmlwhat we’re drinkinghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17142427233477622358noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-69023350783095897112010-10-27T08:37:04.591-07:002010-10-27T08:37:04.591-07:00Looking around I found this which I thought was in...Looking around I found this which I thought was interesting. <br /><br />http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_alcopopsDA Beershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13592377918990052792noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-54934670356982068312010-10-27T07:52:30.374-07:002010-10-27T07:52:30.374-07:00Jeff - would you be willing to specify how much of...Jeff - would you be willing to specify how much of a reduction in young people getting drunk would be enough to justify outlawing these drinks? <br /><br />I'd hope you at least have a threshold in mind and aren't prepared to restrict the choices of consenting adults based on some murky "for the children" argument.<br /> <br />If they're outlawed and nothing changes, wouldUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03183443935981279767noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-38720285647153306972010-10-27T06:44:18.442-07:002010-10-27T06:44:18.442-07:00Jeff, please reiterate your basic point that peopl...Jeff, please reiterate your basic point that people are failing to understand. It seems to me that there are people who are taking issue with some pretty specific assertions and assumptions you're making, which is perfectly fair game in a discussion over specific issues.Bradhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10062313544846423344noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-62195472809306745482010-10-27T00:17:53.729-07:002010-10-27T00:17:53.729-07:00That is not so cool! You could drink anything as l...That is not so cool! You could drink anything as long as you know your limit but these kind of abuse isn't tolerable! That should be banned!ff14gilhttp://www.ff14gils.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-5726191833716815542010-10-26T21:45:11.776-07:002010-10-26T21:45:11.776-07:00Kevin, I think it's down to philosophical deba...Kevin, I think it's down to philosophical debate at this point. <br /><br />Derek, to repeat my argument: "will they turn up with .35% BAC <b>in the same numbers?</b>?" Nowhere do I argue naively that this is the sole cause of youthful drunkenness. <br /><br />I feel like no one's making an effort to understand my basic point before disagreeing with it--and offering counterJeff Alworthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02930119177544342495noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-43536607835305579542010-10-26T19:58:33.145-07:002010-10-26T19:58:33.145-07:00@Kevin - I'm sorry, but these comparisons to r...@Kevin - I'm sorry, but these comparisons to rum and coke don't fly, not at all. <br /><br />A typical rum and coke contains ice, 1-1.5oz of 70 proof Rum and about 5-6 oz of coke. Coke has 34mg of caffeine per 12 oz can, which means your average rum and coke has about 18ish mg of caffeine in it total. Four Loko doesn't advertise anywhere its caffeine content, but if you look at Adamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09688546442746669587noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21271644.post-26471003482456481392010-10-26T19:03:05.473-07:002010-10-26T19:03:05.473-07:00"TOf course, this population is still going t..."TOf course, this population is still going to find booze, but will they turn up with .35% BAC."<br /><br />Jeff, not to crap in your cereal, but .35%s turn up all the time, normally there isn't an easy target for the blame though, as usually it's spread across the realm of vodka, rum, tequila, and such. This time it's just convenient in a can with a name attached to it. <brDA Beershttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13592377918990052792noreply@blogger.com