All of which I offer as preamble to Ron Pattinson's response to a tweet of mine this morning announcing that Zoiglhaus was bottling their beer:
There followed a spirited debate about whether the people behind this brewery were knowingly offending, inadvertently offending, or somehow vaguely violating some kind of norms that were never exactly identified. (The threads splintered, so I can't provide a single link to them all.)
I've already done my best to clarify where I think it makes sense to be careful about appropriating the names of beer styles (see here and here). Understanding the history of beer, beer styles, and national tradition are generally wise for anyone making beer.
But I'd like to turn the tables on the Europeans and ask them to be a bit more sensitive to our culture.
The United States is almost entirely an immigrant nation (Native Americans now constitute less than a percent of the population). The ancestors of the people who live here now came from other places, and the culture of the country continues to evolve as new groups arrive. I'll skip past the part about how the Irish were once so alien they were not considered "white," but it serves to show that what we are is what we have absorbed. We are a country composed of little bits of culture pieced together by people who bailed on their former countries, adding their cuisines and couture and music and beverages to what it means to be "American."
What we have now is a hodgepodge of different influences (some would call it a pastiche), and over time it mutates. Europeans often see this mutation as a debasement of their culture rather than the expression of our own culture. I am reminded of a story John told me about encountering an American who called himself "Irish." A few of his ancestors had come here generations ago, of course--he was no more Irish than I am. This irritated (mystified?) John, who felt that it disrespected what it means to actually be Irish. But here's the thing: that person wasn't talking about Ireland; he was talking about his own identity as an American. This is what happens when a giant population leaves one place and goes to another--the descendants of the immigrants become something different than their grandparents were. This is not the fault of the descendant.
So when we refer to things European, it is refracted through the lens of our own culture. Zoiglhaus's Alan Taylor is a massive Germanophile. He studied German in college and grad school and moved to Berlin to study a medieval variant of the language. He studied brewing at VLB in Berlin and worked as a brewer in several breweries around Berlin and in Bavaria. He married a German and he and his wife only speak to their children in German at home. He is insufferable about German pronunciation. And so, when he was looking to start his own brewery, it was of course going to be hugely influenced by Germany. He chose the Zoigl tradition because he admired it and felt importing it would enhance Portland's beer culture. He wanted to elevate the coolest thing in German beer culture and so chose the Zoigl tradition as his inspiration.
Alan is on the right. More here. |
This kind of thing happens all the time. We are mutts who have to draw on the fractured lineages that go back to Europe or live as orphans with no history at all. I actually don't care if Europeans are gravely offended by these things we do, nor even if they accuse Zoiglhaus--as a couple people did--of behaving offensively. People get offended by a lot of stuff and there's not a lot you can do about that. What I do care about is that Europeans acknowledge that in many cases Americans are neither ignorant or intending to offend--they're just behaving as all people do, by expressing their own culture. It's just that our culture picks up and includes the stuff that happened after our shared ancestors decided to move from there to here. We are allowed to both have our own American culture and to have a culture that draws on a shared history without exactly reproducing the culture as it exists elsewhere.
Americans have plenty to apologize and feel guilty for. Plen-ty. Our own culture is not one of those things.
Update. One other wrinkle in this whole business occurred to me as I scanned the comments this morning. American culture is not just made up of the fragments of culture brought here in the steerage compartments of ships--it is made up of fragments of the culture carried by the people who in large or small ways were rejecting their countries of birth. It is no surprise that the anti-monarchists who bailed out of England in the 17th and 18th century begat a country full of anti-monarchists. Nor is it particularly surprising that Europeans who remained would be stauncher protectors of their own culture. We are a country settled and renewed by expats, and so it's not surprising that we place less value on the fixtures of culture in the places our ancestors quit. I think this is one of those places of friction--our irreverence is seen as more a behavior than a piece of our culture by those outside it.
"But I'd like to turn the tables on the Europeans and ask them to be a bit more sensitive to our culture."
ReplyDeleteVery Trumpian. I see you are settling into the new zeitgeist
The only thing that's "Trumpian" in this thread is you discarding and eluding the author's argument with name calling and labeling.
DeleteI really cannot believe you engaged so politely with such twats (European usage there) that feel the need to pull out the "cultural appropriation" card for something so utterly inconsequential. Good on you for rising above.
ReplyDeleteWhat I don't get is how the response to "could you not do that, it's rude?" is "naww, actually it's fine, don't be so uptight." Like with my Irish-American interlocutor above, there doesn't seem to be any ability or willingness to hear themselves from the other person's point of view; that empathy is a risk to be avoided. It's like the correct perspective for an American to have is an American perspective and that's all that matters. You could understand it if we didn't live in a world which is much smaller than it was 25 years ago, where we have instant real-time access to each other's cultures and viewpoints. The viewpoint you're defending just seems a bit manifest-destinyish to me. It's not that it's offensive, or that anyone is offended, but it does look like poor manners.
ReplyDeleteJeff can couch it any way he wants: this is marketing and branding. It isn't culture, unless America's culture is also just soulless marketing (which is an argument I would accept).
DeleteI'm not offended by it, but it is turning a barely hanging-on tradition into a crass marketing gambit. It's less that Zoiglhaus is doing Zoigly things and more "no one has used the name Zoigl over here so ~brand identity~"
Whether it's enforced now are not, whenever ABI purhcases the brand, expect not to be able to use "Zoigl" on anything because it's now trademarked. #AmericanCulture
DeleteMy comment isn't in reference to the Zoigl/Zoiglhaus issue in particular - though I agree with you on the crassness - nor even general cultural appropriation, but the argument that we should all just chill out and accept it, because it's what Americans do.
DeleteOh I agree. I wasn't joking when I said it is a Trumpian position to take.
DeleteGood post. And given this brewer's interests ans inspirations I look forward to trying those beers someday. But I think your argument has a whiff of American exceptionalism. We get to appropriate stuff and be insensitive to other traditions, because we're American (and came from those traditions)? I don't know. We can put cheese in a can and call it Parmesan, but that doesn't make it the best choice of name, even when it tastes good.
ReplyDeleteSo that's the ethical/cultural side of it. But on the pragmatic/hedonistic/marketing side of it... If I were in the States and saw it on a shelf or at a pub, I might be annoyed for about 10 seconds but I would definitely want to buy and try it.
DeleteBut would you be then annoyed again once you have tasted it and see that it isn't Zoigl?
DeleteJoe, I agree it has a whiff of American exceptionalism. That's what culture is. What I'm trying to point out is that there's more than a little European exceptionalism going on in this discussion that is neither being acknowledged nor investigated. You want to pluck the goose, fair enough, but note that the fully-feathered gander is siting right next to her entirely unmolested.
DeleteAlan: That raises the question, "What is Zoigl?" To me it's a localized tradition, not a beer style per se. Each brewer/family has their own recipe in theory, and though they are eerily similar if one of them made a bitter brown ale or something, it would still be Zoigl because of the communal brewing tradition. Just like if a Trappist abbey brewed a shitty lager, it would still be a Trappist beer. Which raises the question of how someone can make a "Zoigl" outside of that tradition.
DeleteMy only thought here is this, if it ain't brewed in a communal brewhouse and served out of people's living rooms on a 'whose turn is it to have the sign outside this week?' basis, then it isn't Zoigl.
ReplyDeleteJust as pilsner brewed anywhere other than Plzen, including anywhere in the Czech Republic, is pale lager.
Just as sparkling wine made outside of the Champagne region is just sparkling wine.
Just as cheddar made outside of Somerset is not really Cheddar.
That's not to say that people, regardless of where they are from, can't make their own versions of food and drink they have loved, after all that has been going on for generations.
Also, it's not as though us dreaded Europeans don't appropriate American food traditions, the number of burger and barbecue places popping up in the EU is testament to that, and I have American friends who are horrified at my ideas for doing peat smoked brisket one day, because, you know, tradition and it's not proper and all that jazz.
The cynic in me things for all the Germanophilia going on, this brewing is relying on the ignorance of the public at large as to what true Zoigl is, and is thus using it as a marketing trope to stand out from the crowd.
Oh and while we're at it, shoving extraneous nonsense in a firkin and dispensing it by gravity is not freaking cask ale.
Oh and yes I'd happily try the beer, after all it's the liquid in the can that I actually give tuppence about.
DeleteI dunno. I see a sliding scale even though I don't see Zoigl-oid being Zoigl as you say. I accept macro Pilsner as being a descendant of German immigratation to the US in the 1800s. We have Canadian Cheddar made by descendants of immigrants from England, many firms going back many generations. I wouldn't want to call it Cheddar-style cheese. But (for me) your point on the techniques of Zoigl production are spot on.
DeleteAlso Jeff, please defend this position in a new post. I am not going to engage in 140 characters. I think all of my twitters are "sensitive" or shadowbanned anyway.
ReplyDelete"Lambics are pretty special cases. Not exactly an analogue to the zoigl tradition."
There are two links in paragraph four that do this. Click and see...
DeleteThat whole lambic kerfuffle is specifically what I'm referring to. You were right then. You are wrong now.
DeleteLambic and Zoigl are two of the most transparent analogues I can think of. I can make a spontaneously fermented wild ale, but it isn't *lambic*. That entire way of brewing is an endangered species and not crassly borrowing the name for marketing purposes.
Other ones--Pilsner, Kolsch--they are largely marketing DOPs by definition. No great loss if those are diluted by branding. But Zoigl is a whole culture that's barely hanging on from the renaissance. It is absolutely part of the place.
If Lambic is the panda bear, Zoigl is the pink yangtzee river dolphin that no one really gives a shit about. But they are ultimately the same: a nearly extinct relic from the past.
*"and not crassly borrowing the name for marketing purposes is the price you pay for its preservation."
DeleteVery Trumpian. I see you are settling into the new zeitgeist... I wasn't joking when I said it is a Trumpian position to take.
ReplyDeleteI have written a thousand-word essay about culture in which I tried to bring nuance and understanding to the discussion; you have called me names. I shall let history judge which is more Trumpian.
I didn't call you names; I said your argument was Trumpian. Which it is. This kind of chauvanism is the kind of response you get from the right whenever someone complains about cultural appopriation of Halloween costumes or whatever.
Delete"Suck it up, buttercup, this is what we do here"
I would give a nickel for the chance to smack whoever came up with Ballast Point's Tart Peach Kolsch. Somebody is going to think that's what a Kolsch should taste like. I deal with a lot of beer style blasphemy in my main job, and as a lover of Kolsch am mildly irked when a US brewer doesn't append "-style". But most of the time it's an homage, and I'm happy to try a well-done, fresh example of my favorite beer style; less so when it's an American blond ale with a fancy German name. There's a respectfully named beer, and then there's Tart Peach Kolsch. Which battles are most worth fighting?
ReplyDeleteThis level of sanctimony and quest for cultural purity fits quite neatly within the wave of far-right nationalism that's currently sweeping Europe. Is Ron also a supporter of the BNP? If I were european I'd be pretty weary of aligning myself with such anti-pluralism.
ReplyDeleteThat's an eye-poppingly OTT comment. Slandering someone as a neo-nazi because they have an opinion on beer styles is really quite unhinged.
DeleteThis made mw laugh so much. Clearly Anonymous knows me inside out.
DeleteFolks, we probably need to tone down the politically-tinged talk here. Ron's initial comment was fine if a bit pointed. He addresses the theme of cultural appropriation, which is a subject we can all relate to. It is not monstrous.
ReplyDeleteDaniel, yes, you're calling me names ("very Trumpian") which is less a crime of trolling than just boring and beneath you. You make your case plainly in the comment of 10:53 AM and I take your point. My point is not chauvinism and I think you know that but want to pick a fight. Not playing.
aww but "Anonymous" just accused ron pattinson of being a BNPer which a public hair away from calling him a nazi. This is just when it's getting good!!
DeleteI get that you object to the label Jeff. Certainly it seems intended to offend in part. I don't think being likened to Trump or the discourse surrounding him carries the same weight as Godwins Law though, and in this case the shoe fits, whatever your personal politics might be.
DeleteSo as far as I can follow it, the argument seems to go:
ReplyDeleteRon: They shouldn't call it zoigl, because it's not zoigl.
Jeff: True. But that's American culture.
I hope I've misunderstood Jeff here, because if it isn't zoigl, why should you insist on calling it zoigl? Isn't that deliberate deception of innocent customers who think they are buying zoigl when in fact they are not?
Okay, I guess I will have to comment on this Trump business. Both Anon and Daniel liken this post to Trump, but I don't even understand how it's used. To the extent Trump has any philosophy at all, it's white nationalism. How is this relevant to a discussion of the way European culture is being appropriated in the US?
ReplyDeleteThis is name-calling because it doesn't mean anything; it's a personal attack or a provocation, not an argument. Rather than saying, you're like Trump! neener neener, why not actually make the case you think you're making by calling me Trumpian?
It's interesting that you bring up Godwin's law and not Hitler, Anon, because they point to different things. Godwin's law is a term to define the use of Hitler as a glib way of stifling discussion and meaning. Godwin created it because, he writes, "I wanted folks who glibly compared someone else to Hitler or to Nazis to think a bit harder about the Holocaust."
I would ask the same of you. Or at lest, I would ask that if you dismiss this post as "Trumpist," that you define your terms. Otherwise it's meaningless name-calling.
Well, if I might give my view from across a border, it's not really odd given Trump's links to white nationalists so much as really odd given he is an isolationist. He would export a version of America, not import a bit of Germany (of all places). This sort of inclusion/appropriate/homage would seem to me to be something of an anti-Trumpist move.
ReplyDelete[All of which I appreciate is besides the real point.]
This 'discussion' thread will prove informative to my Globalization and Beer class.
ReplyDeleteDoes anyone outside hardcore beer aficionados even know what Zoigl is? I know more about beer than the average person on the street, but I never heard of the Zoigl tradition. I figured the name was just chosen because it was German. 99.99% of the people buying beer haven't a clue what Zoigl is.
ReplyDelete